THE LAST SENTENCE SUMS IT UP PERFECTLY [ARE NOW THOUGHT TO OWN PROPERTY]. TIME TO GET INTERNATIONAL LAWYERS INVOLVED,THIS LOT CAN'T BE TRUSTED 1 IOTA.

A complete fiasco... but it's no surprise. That's what one can expect from a Banana Republic that protects those with influence at the expense of the nation's dignity. Shame on them all and the system.

Once again Cyprus law has proved not to be up to a standard acceptable in an EU member state. It appears that the law is permanently biased in favour of the developers.
I don't think Cyprus should become a little England but I do believe that the adoption of the UK system of property registration would be advantageous to everyone except the developers and I presume that this is the reason it has never been adopted.

@ Richard James from Africa.

Richard, an idiot always comes back for more. No wise man told me this. Its my own observation.
So Richard, go back to the wise old man and tell him from me,that he has been waisting his time with you. Tell him, that you have learned nothing of any value and also tell him, that you have decided to take up a job.Guard at a concentration camp at Madagascar full of Cypriots. And listen what he has to say.

Best of luck Richard.

@GEORGE Re: QUESTIONER.

A wise man once said to me " Never argue with an Idiot - It will bring you down to its level & then win with experience!"

Ignore it George. Wait for WIKILEAKS. Is it just a coincidence or is there really some deep correlation between the spelling of CyprIOT & IdIOT? I say this with some trepidation but my C friends know me.

I have had my differences with the clot masquerading as the "MODERATOR" herein before. So have others I noticed. On my next visit soon I intend taking a look at this "individual" at the CM office & having a quiet word with the Editor. (I must assume they are not one & the same!) It,(I say IT because I am not quite sure of the gender) has had the outrageous temerity to alter the spelling & meaning of contributions made. ADVICE - contribute on weekends when said "MODERATOR" is assuredly legless on a few bottles of Richard the LH's red wine until midday monday!

Have a great weekend. This will be wacked on Monday!

@George from Berlin

I was scanning through the posts here regarding this article and fortunately I have come across your posts.

On the 27/1/11 at 13.43 you referred to Cyprus as "a banana republic"
On 22/1/11 at OO.49 you referred to Cyprus as " corrupt and uncivilised society"
On 21/1/11 at 13/26 you referred to Cyprus " this rotten island"
I was initially upset, then I thought about it and I came to the conclusion that George has a point.
So George, I wonder if you could be so kind to impart some knowledge ofyours,to us in order to help us to become better and for you not to be so ashamed having Cypriot blood in your veins.
From what you have told us previously, all the world knows now,
you live in a small flat Germany, married to a German wife,have a degree in Civics(?), you are a teacher of Neuropsychology and speak three languages.
Thats quite some achievement George. You are really immersed in civilization, unlike us here in Cyprus.
George, with such credentials and qualifications under your belt, would you please tell us as to how we should go about in becoming civilised? To create a republic which is not a banana and where corruption is nolonger the order of the day?
Would you help us George?
And please make it snappy because we are running out of time.

Thank you George.

Sorry!! I mean RICHARD JAMES from AFRICA NOT Jones.

I cant help wondering if the developers are still thinking it has been worth all of this to cheat Connor?

The publicity has been damming, they have been revealed as dishonest thugs to not only the prospective buyers of property but to family, friends, business associates. Who would want to deal with this company now?

Whatever monies they spend to publicising their developements in the past has surely gone down the pan with their future?

Somebody swtich the light off please.

@ Richard Jones from Africa ( South Africa I presume)

I have posted a comment for you on 27/1/11 at 17.31 regarding your comments on article " Tent city springs up at Mackenzie beach"
do you remember?
You said something like, sent them back etc but your comment was deleted by the moderator. Unsuitable I suppose.!!
I thought there was a contradiction to your sentiments.
If you want to sent the Cypriots to Madagascar, why do you want to protect them from the Palestinians.
I suppose is due to the name of the beach "Mackenzie". Am I right? Its a Scottish name you know. You must have thought the beach is in Scotland.
Unless of course you are setting up a concentration camp at Madagascar to sent all the undesirables and you as a guard.
Richard, what are you trying to paint? Your colours are clashing.

THE CURE IS SIMPLE

DO NOT BUY PROPERTY IN CYPRUS

@ QUESTIONER - Do they only allow you out over weekends & whoever gave a bodyheat IQ access to the internet? Finito

Mr. O'Dwyer, as a person not unadjacent to the legal profession I would advise you to take it to the EU & International courts. Even if you find you cannot do so the resulting wide publicity will eviscerate these scumbags. Get international publicity anyway you can.

I believe there is a contribution from WIKILEAKS coming soon which will blow the roof off this this filthy affair & many others on your poor benighted island.....

It's difficult to defend Cyprus at the moment Ziad et al, although I have to respect you for trying, I would do the same for my homeland.

However, there does come a point when one has to weigh up the 'evidence' and look at one's own country realistically, and Conor O'Dwyer's case is the ultimate bete noir of Cyprus I'm afraid.
Cyprus has got it so wrong so many times that it really is hard not to see curruption, if not, nepotism at every touch and turn.

Just simply the length of time it has taken Conor to get his cases heard is a travesty, not justice. Add this to the wholly inadequate judgements from the court in several instances now and it is very hard not to see corruption at every level. And then when you add all this to the number of other non-Cypriots who have fallen foul of the judicial system here - can there really be a logical reason for all of this?

For those wanting the details of the judgement - given the length of the judge's report that is a massive ask. But - the case was brought under s303a which defines fraud as dealiing in immovable property.... without the consent of the registered owner or other body who has an interest (not the actual wording, but I think that is the meaning.) In this case the developer had neither the permission of Conor O'Dwyer nor the court to sell the house - it was registered to Conor at the LR, he was the benefic ial owner, it simply could not be sold without his consent. Added to which the developer claimed he had informed Conor that he was terminating the contract - he cannot do this, it has to be done with court approval. He did not have this. So on all counts the developer broke the law. The judge got it wrong in finding for the developer (and rubbing salt in the wounds by awarding him costs as well!!!!!). Now maybe you can supply a reason for this Ziad, but given the number of cases where non-Cypriots fail to get justice, this is pretty damning for Cyprus, however you choose to dress it up.

You must also consider the conequences of this judgement. She has negated the security most of us feel when buying property here, that so long as our contracts are registered at the LR, and particualrly if we have specific performance, our homes are secure. This is no longer the case, this judge has virtually given carte-blanche to developers to sell our houses from under us, keep the cash and the judiciary will condone it.

Given that this is not by any means an isolated judgement in property issues, can you - hand on heart - say that there is no corruption in Cyprus?

This judgement was a shock of tsunami proportions to everyone either involved in this case or affected by its' result. It was an open and shut case, the developer had committed fraud - indubitably clear according to s303a - and yet the judge found in his favour.

Surely the whole of Cyprus should be up in arms about this judgement, not just the ex-pats??? And yet here you are on this forum - inadequately I have to say - defending it.

The simple truth is that this case heaps shame on Cyprus in the way it distributes justice, and will continue so to do until this disgraceful judgement is either repealed or reversed.

Cyprus is no longer the destination for holiday or to live,there are no rights for people from EU country.Also don't forget that many of these crooks developers also own hotels and resorts,don't give these crooks your money!

Seems that my instincts have served me well.

When I purchased in Cyprus I always assumed that I would never see a Title Deed from what is the biggest developer on the Island.Why,because I never had a conversation with anyone who had them!

The Cyprus Living Website explained quite lucidly that Specific Performance was enforceable in a Cyprus Court and the owner of that site seriously believed this drivel and got upset when told he was wrong!!
No properties have changed hands at Aphrodite for months and similarly SECRET VALLEY and it is certain that the UK media have done the damage. Only a fool would invest here and the message has been taken up I believe by UK buyers.
Maybe that is why the focus for Developers has switched to Russia.

@ Richard James

This judgement regarding Mr O Dwyers case, is simply another example of what this island is all about: corruption from top to bottom.

Personally I would NEVER invest my money in an property in Cyprus even though I am a Cypriot. I have some German friends that bought a holiday appartment in 2003 and they only received the title deeds last year! And some 130.000 buyers are still waiting for theirs. Here in Germany it takes max. a month and buyers are legally protected.

Mr O Dwyer not only lost his money, he was physically attacked by the developer and his associates, his villa was resold and the Cypriot judge acquitted the defendants of all charges!!

This is a travesty of justice which is typical for a banana republic.

I feel very sorry for O'Dwyer, that he has had to go through all of that, and I pray that the supreme court will overturn the ruling.

Meanwhile, I would like to say that I am very disheartened with all the negative comments on here, yes Cyprus is not perfect, I would be the first to admit that, but on the whole it's still a reasonably safe and nice place to live. You can't condemn all Cypriots, it's not fair! Also name a perfect country that doesn't have some kind of corruption going on and we can all go and live there!

@RICHARD JAMES from AFRICA

Are you the reincarnation of the "big crocodile"?( Botha if you have forgotten)
Cyprus the New Natal or perhaps Soweto? Would this be OK with you?
Cypriots take note.

http://www.cy2012eu.gov.cy/cyppresidency/cyppresidency.nsf/cyp09_en/cyp0...
Paragraph 3

The Universal values of justice and equality of our citizens....
....must guide our actions in the EU!

Is anyone really surprised? Surely not.

CYPRUS is a EU joke. The Mafia Coterie of Judges, Lawyers, Developers, & MP's will see that NOTHING comes of such investigations, whether judicial (joke!) or otherwise.

Comments such as "ZIAD", inter alia, are convincing evidence that " Hire a Comment" has been bought into play. Nobody who could ever be arrested for suspicion if intelligence were a crime, would believe such drivel.

Don't give such vomit the oxygen of publicity, Folks. Ignore them - nothing annoys them more. New immigrant maxim - NEVER, NEVER BUY, ONLY RENT IN CYPRUS!

Poor, lovely Cyprus. Can we not move the Cyriots to Madagascar!

@andyp
That's some level of wit you display there my friend. You should write for Private Eye.

@ DMN Regarding your last sentence might I just offer my thanks. I am relieved.

@ Jane et al

I have been insulted. My family has been insulted, my neighbours, the villagers in the village where I live, the old lady who brings me fresh eggs and does not take any money,the shepherd who brings me milk and does not accept pay. My butcher,baker and grosser and their families. The man who serves me and my family at his restaurant. We all have been insulted, because we are living "in this uncivilized country" in a society which is " corrupt from top to bottom" where "the Orthodox bandits strike again" and the rest.
When I, in my halting English,and Ziad, trying to defend these people who have no voice, we are called " devious and subtle" Come off it. Just read the posts by the cyber hooligans.
Mr. O'Dwyer's case has been hijacked by bigots and Cyprus haters. And you, like others, well meaning no doubt, jumped onto the bandwagon with out having an idea about the case, but carried along by the emotions generated.
I have no idea my self, but I have pass no judgement, neither Ziad.
Sav, a poster, asked for information regarding the case. No one has provided any. What does it prove? They do not know, but they pass judgement.
If Mr O'Dwyer is right, best of luck to him.
But do not insult us. You are not any more "civilised" than the old lady, or the shepherd I have mentioned. And you neither live in a "better" society. This is the last post from this "devious and subtle" GC on this subject.

@Jon
I asked you (or someones else) to provide me with evidence of the judge's rationale and the best you can do is provide a link to Mr. O'Dwyer's lawyer; he apparentlp gives an impartial overview to the situation and the judge's decision. What next Jon? Are you going to start a campaign to free the Yorkshire Ripper campaign, saying, 'he's innocent; just listen to what his lawyer and you'll realise his prosecution was a gross miscarriage of justice'?
I know you're busy saving all the poor animal of Cyprus but surely you can do better than this.

i was told by a friend to check this article and read the comments and I am disgusted.
I have not been aware of this case and its details and if justice was not given i hope O’Dwyer does appeal and justice to prevail.

On a separate matter though, i am a Cypriot 25 yo. i have known and socialized with non Cypriots all my life. I know first hand the good qualities of Cypriots as well as their bad. BUT i have never in my life seen so much negativity and racism towards the Cypriots. Not all Cypriots are 'evil' as many commenters mentioned below. Not all Cypriots are good either,dont worry im not naive. but how can you generalize like that? not all cypriots are corrupt, not all Cypriots are running scams either. Their is number of them that do as citizens of the UK, Scandinavia, Russia and all the rest of the world. please do not point fingers to Cypriots or cyprus like that. do point to the corrupt judge and the developer, no argue there. and please don't forget Cyprus being a popular property destination will have people running scams as will other such destinations like Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, Croatia, Brazil and the list goes on.
Do protect your selfs and your investments. Hire an independent lawyer, be well aware of local law before committing, follow the right legal steps and buy from well established developers/agents.

thats all i have to say.

Best of luck to Mr. O’Dwyer and i do hope to get his justice.

Yes indeed John Frazer. Developers found guilty of lying to the Court. Look forward to them being prosecuted for perjury.

For the benefit of posters who are interested in Conor O Dwyer and his legal struggle, you will be pleased to hear some good news. There will doubtless be a report in today's Cyprus Mail, but in the meanwhile, Nigel Howarth's site, "Cyprus Property News", carries the story. ("Good News at last for Conor O Dwyer"). There was an interesting piece last week ("Conor O Dwyer's Lawyer speaks out"), which contains the audio of his lawyer's interview on radio. Helpful to anyone who does not know the background to the case and the judge's ruling.

@ Dream no more, think you are delusional my dear, big guns little guns, what the hell are you rambling on about.?Anyway I am a very good Estate Agent and love my work.........We are really quite busy ( thought you'd be pleased for me ) I have posted most of my messages in my own time, not from the office ( thought you'd like that too ) And as far as my conscience is concerned, it is very healthy and clear thankyou. I was not and never have been involved with Mr O'Dwyers Property purchase if that's what you were trying to imply. And have never knowingly sold a Property which has any problems attached to it...........
@ Jon, Thanx for the definition on "troll" But on a lighter note I do have a confession to make, I looked through ancestry.com at my Family background, NO TROLLS to be found, and I went back years....however the bad news is, I did find, my real name is Thelma, I live in Bolton and I'm a cleaner in a sweet shop, god imagine my shock..in other words...I don't care who anyone thinks I am, never have, never will. Goodnight all.
O and for Ziad, NO amount of PR could help Cyprus right now, we'd be wasting our money.

Cypriot developers and Cypriot judges are the purest incarnation of honesty.

@DNM
LOL about the downturn in the property market giving Janet so much time to post on here. Maybe in light of this her her company are trying to turn their hand at PR instead.

@Jon
Well if it isn't Cyprus's very own Dr. Doolittle, friend to the animals, Jon Frazier. Yes Jon, me and the equally devious and cunning DNM are the ones who take the forum off topic; without us it trully is the embodiment of a Habermas' public sphere.

@James
I think your response to Sav's question displays such a cutting and complex legal analysis that, despite its brevity, it deserves a PhD.

@Jon Frazer

Woooow!!!!!!!!!! I'm flabbergasted and lost for words.

@ jon

Thanks as you know us sweaty socks (jocks) all these new fangled words kids come up with !!

@ Sav

I can only give you my opinion from what observers at the court posted, If other posters can help ?

That the developers only offered this as a defense 2 letters sent to conor Stating the developers where cancelling there contract with him, and keeping the money he had paid them.

They did not even obtain a court order !! the developer became his own judge and jury.

@ James. A troll is a person who posts inflammatory remarks and tries to provoke other posters. What you and Janet from London have been subjected to over the past day or two is certainly the work of a troll (or two). However, the two posters I have in mind are devious and subtle, and probably fall more into the category of "flamers". They never normally address the topic. Their aim is usually to try and divert the thread of a topic by contentious and provocative assertions, and hope therby to have the thread closed. (Obviously people who are hugely embarrassed by the adverse publicity which the Cypriot establishment is currently bringing upon itself.) If you look on Wikipedia, you can find more info on trolls and flamers.
Jon.

@James
A troll is someone who assumes a different identity to their own on a web forum (for example trying to pass themselves off as scottish when the closest they've ever been to scotland is morfou) and leaves inflamatory remarks on it so as anatagonise other posters in the forum.

@James and Janet
This thread ceased to be about Mr. O'Dwyer's legal case the moment posters started making their usual derogatory remarks about Greek-Cypriots. I'm not going to stand by and let people get away with such abuse.

I'm interested to know: what reasons and rationale did the judge give for deciding against Mr. O'Dwyer? Can someone please enlighten me? And please only respond to my specific question. I don't want to hear any 'she's corrupt, this is Cyprus' nonesense. For all I know the judge may be corrupt but I assume there was a certain rationale provided behind the reason. Seeing as people here seem to be so passionate about the subject, well versed in it and are also apparently legal experts I'm sure one of you can provide me with an answer. Otherwise, I suggest, my dear 'Janet from London', you know where to look for a 'blinkered brainwashed attitude'.

On court appeal if you go to nigel howarth web site cyprus-property-buyers-guide.com you can hear on audio conors lawyer discussing this.

Personally I think with the evidence that is out there, the ag/supreme court should step in and over-rule on the spot.

As to european courts many of us would wellcome eu courts to deal with us in a fair manner, the existing court system is fully overloaded.

Alyn Smith MEP wrote to the President on the 30th nov 09 expressing concern over scots people in cyprus and suggested setting up a non-biased arbitrator service to deal with such matters.

So far the President has not replied ?

The small guns have been silenced it seems. I suppose the strain on their intellect to find appropriate words not directly to insult the GC character has taken its toll.
The big guns are still out in the likes of Kumbu and Janet, an estate agent not known as the paragons of virtue in Britain. I presume the poor state of the housing market has given Janet the opportunity to indulge in some extra curricular activities. Very unusual for an estate agent to be throwing away business. Thats not the behaviour their renowned for. I suppose this one has its conscious pricked by Mr O'Dwyer's case?
Kumbu is banging onto the same old story. Some call it rusveti, others call it nepotism and Kumbu calls it contacts. It has been answered by Ziad and I do not have to go through the same ground in a less erudite manner.
It does not matter in how you both try to dress your argument,what comes out is the same in a more "polite" language.

I would like to know on what grounds did the courts find for the developers , as we can see what Mr O Dwyer has accused the developers , But what was the developers defence. And how did it all start?
Ie what grounds did the developers have to sell the property from under Mr OD Dwyer? (What are the key point they found in favour for?.)

regards

James, don't take any notice.Master Z has shown his true colours and resorted to name calling.( Giving a good indication of his age and social manners ) Kumbu was right, I agree he's at Uni, studying god knows how many Social Study Topics, is overloaded with work, has never lived in Cyprus, and is in great need of sleep. So lets just leave it at that. He should either contribute to the thread or get off the "two-bob forum" He doesn't have a clue about the problems on the island and is typical of the blinkered brainwashed attitude I have come across over the years with people who only want to believe what they want, and that's it.
Back to more important things,I have read that Mr O'Dwyer is going to appeal against the decision the Court has made......does anyone know when, and is he going to take it to European court????? Thanx.

@ Ziad I am a troll now what ever that means ? Cannot you not even attempt to stick to the thread ?

This is about conor and his family fight for justice,

@Janet
There's no point in continuing this discussion. Maybe I'm wrong but the hysterical natire of your posts coupled with your use of English makes me suggest you're not British or an estate agent and merely, like, James a troll trying to pass themselves off as British,

@Kumbu
It's fascinating how you try to contrast life in London with life in Cyprus. From the comfort of my London home? Why do you assume that because I live in London my life is comfortable. Do you realise how difficult life is for many Londoners what with youth crime, huge pockets of poor health, low educational attainment,unemployment, a labour market which offers poor prosepcts and so on. And all this while the fatcats in the City display their wealth in the most vulgar of manners. In London you can have a multi-millionaire financier living one street down from a bunch of kids whose only chance of employment is working in McDonalds, yet somehow this isn't seen as a problem.

Yeah sure Kumbu, London is great. And Cyprus is clearly much worse off. I mean we have mass ranks of the excluded in Cyprus don't we. Don't you realise the public sector in Britain is also seen as a place where people are over-hired to reduce workload, where people leave work less hours than they are contracted to, and unnecessary overtime is taken.Or do you think the British public sector in Britain is a paragon of efficiency and civic virtue?

Cyprus is, I'm afraid, a far more equal society than Britain and if you or anyone else wants to take me on on that point, be my guest.

@Ziad
Unlike you I live in Cyprus so I have a pretty good idea of how things work. By the way I also have virtually no contact with expats, no clubs, etc. In the private sector,everybody with some talent or qualification has a chance. However, it is almost impossible to get any sort of government job, including positions as messengers or cleaners, without contacts. The same applies to semi-government organizations. Perhaps you recall the recent scandal of the Cyprus port authority and the massive overtime payments. It was revealed that no jobs were ever advertised and they were only made known to family members. You can't even get a job in the Co-op without being a member of a certain political party.

I am sure things look different from the comfort of your London home, but the phrase, "All men are equal, but some are more equal than others"." applies at every level of society in Cyprus.

To be fair, not everyone is treated like Conor O'Dwyer. It is possible to live a pleasant life without ever having problems and being oblivious to all this. A few Cypriot friends can smooth the way.It is only when you get involved with the legal system that you realize how little protection you have.

Perimeno me megalo endiaferon ta nea sou oso aphora i zoi stin Kupro, en to metaxi tha sinekhizo na koitazo exo apo to parathiro mou.

I think you hit a nerve this time Kumbu...We are taking a close interest in all of this as it affects us. It affects close friends of mine, and by the way we get a good measure of feellings on this "two-bob forum".....our Clients feel that they are not alone when they read some of the posts on here, as well as joining many "Action" groups they folllow this story very closely, As do we.
They are very aprehensive and shocked at the outcome of the O'Dwyer case, and the implications tg all Homeowners on the island.
The reason I probably come across as someone non-British as you put it, is that I type very fast while working and answering the telephone..is that ok with you or have you got another personal message??

@Cypriots from Gov.
It may interest you to know that Cyprus,as you say,is not the only divided island in the EU. Ireland has been divided since 1922,89 years. Yet normal trade continues to thrive and everyone is protected by the law including purchase of property on both sides.
@Cyprus from Lelkosha.
I live in the UK together with 60 million people of mixed races and origin including an estimated 200,000 Cypriots (Turkish speaking and Greek speaking).All are allowed free speech and are totally protected by the law.As mentioned earlier,decisions in court are made by 12 normal people of good character,known as the Jury and not by a local person elevated to the position of Judge who is know to or by most of his/her community.This can not be considered safe or fair in law particularly if a non Greek-speaking Cypriot is in opposition.Corruption rules!

@DNM
Thanks for the support.

@Janet
I find it very difficult to believe that an estate agent from Britain devotes so much time and energy to write such passionate e-mails on a two-bob forum like this. And sorry, your English is fine for someone non-British but it isn't that of a native speaker.

@Kumbu
My points are: Cyprus doesn't operate in the way you and lots of the ex-pats think it does; and the rest of the world, or rather what you'd define as the civilised members of the EU, including Britain, isn't as pure as you think.

Sorry, most of the Cypriots I know haven't got their jobs through connections. Why do you think Cyprus produces more per capita graduates than anywhere else in the EU if all you need is the right connections? For the love of learning. Of course, certain people have got jobs through pulling strings and I know some. Exactly the same thing happens in Britain, from the highest level to the lowest. You're deluded if you think it doesn't. In fact, many companies prefer to hire people with contacts. Have you ever heard of the old boys' network? And don't give me any nonesense about Cyprus being controlled by the priveleged few. Do you think it's a coincidence that the majority of the British cabinet went to a small number of public schools and Oxbridge? Or is this the working of a perfect meritocracy.

I don't know abot Germany and Scandinavia but I doubt you do either.

And btw when the hell to Cypriots say it's 'always the Brits fault'? They do attach some blame to Britain for the Cyprus problem, many too much in my opinion although Britain has a share of culpabillity. In all other areas of life I've never heard this.

@Denton
Wow. So many people take an interest in my forum name and why I've chosen it. This doesn't seem so interesting to me.

@Ziad. Thanks for enlightening me on the name. I know the Iranian side of my family will be interested, plus all my GC, Iranian and Arab friends. BTW, not that you will care much, I am of Anglo-Irish descent.

@Deam NO MORE. "Even doubting his background, not for the first time,by insinuating that he may be of Arab or Persian extraction, as though it matters". Sorry, old chum, but you have completely misread me. I asked Ziad a straight question and he gave me a straight answer. No hidden agenda, no snide innuendo. Still, if you imagine that innocent curiosity masks some underlying malevolence then I can't help you. I doubt anyone can.

@Ziad
In my post I did specify the need for a 'half open mind'. I haven't lived in Britain for decades and I don't think I have ever made reference to Britain. Oh once I think I asked why,when something goes wrong, is it always the 'British system'. After 50 years of independence it is surely time it became the Cypriot system. Nothing else.

I comment on Cyprus, where I live and where I see the rich and powerful bypass the law and the rules on a daily basis. Your mantra is always, "It's the same everywhere." Have you lived everywhere? When you finish your studies and get out in the world, you will see that is not the case. Go and live in Scandinavia and see how fair and intelligent societies operate. Go and live in Germany and you will see that at every level of local government there are processes in place that people have to follow, whether they are German businessmen or foreign labourers.

Your reasoning on the Karayianis brothers is flawed, but of course you always see what you want to see. If they were respectable businessmen risking 'having their name dragged through the mud', why did they decide to batter him, not once but twice. If they were legally in the right, all they had to do was wait for justice to take it's course. They believed they were above the law and that their cronies in the system would protect them. This belief has of course been vindicated and a family with two young children is having their life destroyed in the process.

Ziad, I look forward to the day you finish your studies and move to Cyprus, as you clearly detest Britain. Let's see how long your 'land of my fathers' zeal lasts, when some under-qualified, halfwit offspring, of some well connected local, gets a job ahead of you. Or when you find you can't get the go ahead for a smart business idea, only for someone else to take up your idea. Cyprus is calling you, hear her siren call.

Janet are you fighting for justice aka jan the supporter of Mr ODwyer ....

I am fascinated by the concerted attacks directed against Ziad.
The only person capable in standing up to the bigots must be destroyed. A voice must be silenced in order to have an open field to play the game according to our own rules. Even doubting his background, not for the first time,by insinuating that he may be of Arab or Persian extraction, as though it matters.
It seems to mater to the bigots.
I have at no time noticed Ziad supporting racism or injustice. The whole purpose of his posts and my own, is to combat the slurs directed at the GC character.
It does not mater what the subject is. Today is Mr O'Dwyers' case. Yesterday it was cats,dogs,birds,maids, just some of the subjects the posters take great pleasure in reminding us what we are.
I hope Ziad does not mind mentioning him. I know he is much more capable than I, in defending what he believes is right.
It is just an observation that cannot escape any reasonable persons' attention.

I am a GS should any one wonders as to who I am.

Oh dear, I seem to have struck a nerve. Let me start by saying...I think Racism is very ugly and should be stamped out, but alas it never will...it exists all over the world and always will no matter what any governing body tries to enforce. Peoples choices are now aired as Racism, peoples thoughts are to be kept to themselves and god forbid you make a disparaging remark on any given religion.
So because I read a comment on here regarding there is no such Racism in Cyprus and it is not aimed at the British, I decided to put on here something I had encountered first hand. That is not to say all the island is full of Racists..but it is there. The comment was made by someone I am begining to think is just on here to look for a fight, but it was a silly comment and I should have ignored it.
Moving on..I am an Estate Agent, I type how the hell I want, say what I want, and will reveal any information I can about the terrible things that are going on in the Property market in Cyprus, as I would anywhere that was causing so much suffering to innocent buyers.
My Boss has just read through some of these posts, he would like to add....Unless you have been involved first hand or indeed have lost all your money in such a way, you can never imagine the stress and misery it can cause. If it happened to him,and he could get no real justice, he would shout it from the rooftops to warn other people, he would indeed not want to hear the name of the place it happened uttered within 10 feet of him, and he would beyond all doubt "tippex it off his globe". So when feellings run high, money and life savings at risk.....things get said. Don't take it too personal Z, we let people say what they like in the UK, it's called the freedom of speech.

@Ralph
It's been a long time.
There are no Muslim publications in Britain - at least that I'm aware of - which on a daily basis have people making comments that British people have no morality, are barbaric, corrupt and all the rest of it. Perhaps you can enlighten me on such a publication?

And what about the BNP and EDL? What about the major race riots that Britain has experienced in every decade since the 1950's? What about the fact that a number of areas in many towns are no go areas for visible minorities? And a climae in which the Daily Mail and The Sun, Richard Littlejohn, Gary Bushell denigrate migrants s scroungers, the root of all the problems facing Britain?

@Janet from London
I don't believe for a second that you represent an agency in London. The way you construct sentences in English and the hysterical nature of the story you told in the last post make this pretty clear to me. BTW, you, like Mr. Lockhart, capitalise words inappropriately in the middle of sentences? Very strange.

@Denton
Thanks for your comment on my dry wit - I do my best. I'm afraid the word racism is very apt for this forum though I make clear that not all ex-pats are racist. The name Ziad is a play on old - Greek - family surname.

@ffj
I'll be keeping an eye out for that event. What on earth does my being a British citizen have to do with anything? I fail to see the relevance in this.

@Ziad

There is plenty of abuse of the "native" British by immigrants and there is no resulting pogrom. Just take a look at the activities of the Islamists there and their cries for Muslim rule along with Sharia law,all washed down with calling the rest of us pigs etc.

I don't yet have information about the event Ziad. I have asked my own MP to attend and will inform him of the details when they are known. The MP who has agreed to host the meeting and hire the room at Westminster is there to represent his client and any others who live in his constituency. I suggest if you want a voice at the meeting you ask your own MP to attend, because after all, you are a British citizen are you not? Born here, raised here, and continue to live here.

A forlorn hope, but can posters of all persuasions please curb all these accusations of 'racism'. It is mostly a misuse of the term and its over-use makes it devalued - all very counter-productive.

Wrongdoing is wrongdoing; casting it all as 'racist' is not helpful; evidence in individual cases is more important; don't think racism was a factor in the Conor saga.

@Ziad. Always like your dry wit, even if I don't always agree with your comments. I note you are an English Cypriot but Ziad is usually a name used by Iranians and Arabs (meaning 'a lot, an abundance, plentiful). Care to tell us why you chose it as a blog name?

Well done Janet. Your company has to use its influence to inform the other agents that it knows about Cyprus property scams. As for the racism, yes, a developer told me as he looked down his nose at me, ' you English, you're all rich'. I walked out! How to win friends and influence people.

A friend worked for a developer.. they took deposit monies for houses that were never going to be built. They used to sit and talk about how they could rip off the client sitting in front of them. Deposits were used to pay for their cars and credit cards and to support their superficial lifestyle.

This developer has now gone under. The rest you can work out for yourself!

This story is on everyones lips. It's the only subject anyone is talking about. Cyprus need not think this will simply go away. The court openly endorsed thievery and corruption and laid it bare for all to see. They can now repent at leisure!

Wow, is this the Turks pretending to be "Janet Jackson or Fred" from London trying to strike against the government of Cyprus?
_________________________________________

The occupied parts of Cyprus is a similar case to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, only but Cyprus is a small island, and they captured parts of the island and is now the only divided island in the EU.

_________________________________________
Cyprus has achieved a lot. An island invaded by criminals in 1974 by Turks, that do not leave the opportunity, but to bombardise Cypriot forums with anti-british and anti-cypriot statements , causing tension to the legitimate civilians of Cyprus.

Cypriots and British have long been together. Turkish Cypriots is the result of the islamification of some parts of Cyprus JUST what they try to do in the UK.
_________________________________________
Turks out of Cyprus. And for all people new to Cyprus, please learn that ROC and North/South are misused terms.

_________________________________________
There is only 1 Cyprus and only ONE government. The Republic of Cyprus. Lets do not encourage terrorists to tense our relations and merits.
_________________________________________

Some cases are so blatantly unfair that anybody, with an even half open mind, can see it. One example is the beating of the two students by the police. The video evidence, which showed them beating the lads, was rejected by the court.A decision so ridiculous that the attourney general stormed into the court.

Conor O'Dwyer's case is another. They have 92,000 euros of his money and then sold his house to someone else, even though it is registered in his name. Let's suppose there is some dispute about that, but you still have the violent beatings. At the trail for the first beating, his lawyer told him he did not need to come. However, the judge insisted the case go ahead and ,as he was not present, the case was thrown out. Anyone, with the slightest knowledge of Cyprus court cases, will know that almost every case is delayed and postponed. In fact, virtually every court appearance he has made has been delayed. Yet, for the one when he was told not to come, suddenly the judge insisted it go ahead. Does that not seem a bit fishy??

Then, there was the second assault. The developers phoned the police to say they were going to work him over, therefore premeditated. They drove to the site and forced his car off the road, before three of them beat him badly enough to keep him in hospital for six days. These are undisputed facts. They were found guilty but given a suspended sentence.

I don't see how anyone can look at this case and say that Conor O'Dwyer has been treated fairly, or that this is the work of some sort of impartial justice system. If there is equality before the law, it certainly has not been apparent. People say that he has ruffled feathers by the way he has protested, but that should not affect his treatment in a court of law.

@ DNM/ZAID

Sorry guys your attempt to tar posters as Racist, just shows you have no defense.

Actually you should go along to the meeting and meet MPs/MEPs You also find the UK foregn & commonwealth office report that over 50000 uk citizens are experincing property problems in cyprus.

@ Ziad
Good point. Would FFJ be so kind to give us the name of the MP so we can email the comments of his compatriots in order to admire their candor.

@ffj
I'm sure the prominent MP you mention will be glad to know of the racist language you use to desribe Greek-Cypriots, having no moral integrity and so on. As indeed would MP's with a large number of Greek-Cypriot constituents.

Hi Burt

Was talking to Conor earlier today about the subject of the Earls Court protest and yes, we will certainly be there and welcome all, whether you have a problem or not.

There will also be a meeting in Westminster sometime in the next couple of months hosted by a prominent MP. All with problems are urged to attend and also urged to ask their MP to attend to represent their interests.

Ziad

Time you put the head back in the Sand pit

Your idea ex-pats are racist etc etc, Just exposes your lack off a credible defense. now as to the roc goverment maybe they should look at the posts and then look at revenues coming into state coffers and wonder what gone wrong ?

To Janet of London
Good for you,your colleagues and your company taking this wise decision not to advertise Cypriot properties to protect innocent buyers/pensioners.Could you give this story the widest cover to all British Estate agents dealing with Cypriot property as many retirees do consider Cyprus for retirement.Maybe you could get the incident shown on the ITV programme, 'Homes from Hell'.Conor O'Dwyer took a stand at Earls Court Property Abroad last year advising potential retirees/investors of the corrupt property market in Cyprus-we can all give him support if he intends to appear this year.Conor-lets us know!

@ffj
You are, of course, being highly selective with what you report about the case. Whatever you like to think, I'm afraid it isn't so straightforward; it's just that you and all the other ex-pats wish it was so that it can feed your racist fantasies and because you feel it puts pressure on the ROC government.

Btw, nice joke about the capital N - I give credit where it's due.

Actually I've never been called a Charlie in a dereogatory way. I have, however, been called racist names by British people.

@James
I don't forget that there's a Turksh element living on the island but they don't have the right (legal or moral) to sell property which belongs to GC refugees.

The only other non-Scot I know to have been as obsessed with Scotland as you is Idi Amin.

Btw, is there a reason why you capatilise words in the middle of a sentence? Or is that another Scottish trait?

@Zaid

I gather You are as Confused as nearly Everybody with this Judge ruling.

Now be Clear all the North does not belong to GC, You forget there is a TC population as Well living on the Island.

This Judge Ruling is a disaster for all. She Ignored Cyprus law and rewarded the Crooked. Now this developer Still has Conors money WHY ? He did not even go to a Court to decide to keep Conors money and sell the House to another person. She Cannot sell the House as it is Registered in Conor name.

Now Zaid I think even you will say this Judge Has made a ruling that only benifits the Person who got the money from both parties.

A Bit Daft ?

As to my English, Well Us EX-BLACK WATCH JOCKS dae speak with a broad Scots Accent

Ziad, the Interior Minister of Cyprus said that someone whose contract is registered in the Land Registry is the owner of the house. The Judge agreed that Conor's contract was legally registered in the Land Registry. Ergo, he is the owner. She then ruled that it was not a criminal action to sell it to someone else.

The Judge is a Greek Cypriot. She made this judgement that says there is no difference between Conor's house and those that you claim were stolen in the north. Do you question her moral integrity?

Surprised to see you put a capital N in your post when referring to the north, but then again, the Greek Cypriots you talk of would call you a Charlie wouldn't they, in a derogatory way at that.

@ James JH Lockhart
As I said previously I'm not familiar with the case. The judge must have had evidence, he must have summed up before passing judgment.
Regarding the people who beat up Mr O'Dwyer have been, from what I understand, punished. If the judgment is not accepted then there is a possibility of appeal.
As for the sand pit I have stopped playing in it unlike a lot of people posting here.

@Fighting for Justice
Of course you're puzzled at Greek-Cypriots having moral integrity. Racist Afrikaaners and members of the KKK deny that black people are capable of acting in a civilised manner.

You write:
'Can I ask what you, as a British Cypriot, think of this Judge deciding that there is no stolen land in the north and that it is ok for anyone to sell property that belongs to others?

Which judge? This doesn't make sense to me. Are you trying to draw an analogy with Mr. O'Dwyer's case? If so it doesn't hold: the land in the North irrefutably belongs to Greek-Cypriots,which isn't the case with Mr.O'Dwyer's villa; that, as I understand it, is what the whole legal dispute is about. (And when I say this I'm not passing jugdement on the case, and do not wish Mr. O'Dwyer any harm or deny the possibility that he is the rightful owner of the property, I'm merely saying that there is a dispute surrounding this.)

@James
You use the English language in ways which it hasn't been used before.

@ DNM

Yes that what Conor Got from the Developers a Good beating for complaining and fighting for His Family rights,

Have you Got the Same Sand pit as Zaid ?

So maybe you can help post on the thread and your views how this Silly Judge ruling Can be Consigned to the dustbin !

@ James JH Lockhart
Beat you to it "rousveti".

Zaid

Shake the Sand out off Your Hair, There is no Racilism being expressed in 99% of posts It You just Cannot handle Truth hitting Home about how a Very Few Rusfeti ruin the Reputation and Standing of your Country.

Now if you think All these people posting Are pushing for Fairness and justice who benifits when they Win ALL CYPRIOTS !!!!

As to your comments About me not being a Scot I think you shot your Self through the Foot there. I Am the person who caused such a Uproar in Case no 176/06 Paphos Court House 26th feb 2007 When the judge heard my Accent an Said you are Scots.

Zaid Comment on the thread now ?

Bit puzzled about this Greek Cypriot moral integrity you speak of Ziad.

Can I ask what you, as a British Cypriot, think of this Judge deciding that there is no stolen land in the north and that it is ok for anyone to sell property that belongs to others?

@ Fighting for justice
Sorry to hear that you have been defrauded.
But, if the Brits where to tippex all the countries they have a problem with, the glob would be all white (Spain included?)
Hark back to the time when the glob was tippex red.
Your contribution to this case is coloured by your own experience.

@ James JH Lockhart
James you have changed of late. You have done away with the words corruption etc and your favorite "rousveti".
Regarding this case, I know nothing about, but it seems that there is a problem and it ought to be looked at urgently.
But comments laced with vitriol and hate is not the best way of going about it. Don't you agree?

@James
I'll stick to the thread when comment-makers do likewise. As long as they continue to make racist comments against all aspects of Greek-Cypriot society, and make completely unsubstantiated remaakrs against our moral integrity, I'll continue to combat these views. It's my duty as an anti-racist to do this. And there's nothing anti-English in my views.

Btw, as I've told you many times before, you're about as Scottish as a Siberain tiger!

@Fighting for Justice
It's beyond you how Cyprus ever got into the EU? Your racism is so entrenched into your psyche that you're not even aware of it. Cyprus is in the EU because people more qualified than you decided it could be. And it's pretty much got a good reputation in the EU - unlike another, somewhat larger, island.

Well, my friend, you may well wish to typex Cyprus out of the globe but I'm afraid I have little sympathy for you: many peoples around the world would like to typex Britain out of their collective memories.

Zaid,

Stick to the Thread None of your posts even mention That this is about a Crazy Court Ruling, Which ignores existing Cyprus law and makes a farce of the Cyprob property issues.

Now Zaid if you are unable to Comment on the Thread but only letting your Anti english views come to through.

do you not understand the Thread ?

From a Little Scotlander laughing at you

Janet from Lomdon
Are you able to say who you work for that have done this
Im sure alot of people would like to thank them maybe emails or written letter....

I am not there my friend. I have paid for a property there, it even got planning permission to be built 5 years after I took possession of it. I then had to spend 6000 euros finishing it off mind. Whether I own it is a rather subjective matter at the moment. I have also been defrauded out of another. I do wish I'd never heard of the godforsaken place though and how they were ever allowed into the EU is quite beyond me. If I could get my money out of there tomorrow I'd be over the moon not to ever have to go there again. In fact, so happy would I be that I'd probably never even say the name of the place again. I'd be happy to tippex it out of my globe.

ps, I did used to like it believe it or not.

@Fighting for Justice
There can't really be any debate that Cyprus is prosperous, it's crime rate is one Britain can only dream of, and whilst I grant you pleasantness is highly subjective, the worst areas of Britain make the worst areas of Cyprus look like Eden - otherwise you wouldn't be there my friend.

Besides why do you have to live somwhere to form an impression of what it's like? I've never been to the sun but I'm pretty sure it's hot up there; and I'd wager there's quite a few trees in the Amazon.

I've never heard a Cypriot say 'if you don't like it you can leave' to an ex-pat. I have, however, heard many Brits say that to migrants and the descendents of migrants in Britain - indeed it's been said to me. From what I can see, by far the most racist people in Cyprus are the ex-pats, or at least number of them who seem intent on tarring all ex-pats with the same brush. Unfortunately, the Cyprus bashers who post on this forum are simply a bunch of little Englanders who've gone to an ex-colony and see this as an excuse to vent all their supressed racism.

Ziad, if you were born in England and live in England what makes you say Cyprus is a prosperous, safe and pleasant place to live?

As is said to many ex-pats every day, if you don't like it you do have a choice. Actually, most of those who wish they could get the hell off Cyprus and never set foot on it again don't have the choice because they've put all their money in a damp blob of concrete that they can't sell because, among other reasons, the legal system in Cyprus is not fit for purpose.

Well done DNM for pointing out that most of the comments here have nothing to do with the legal case; the legal case is merely an excuse for many people to voice their racist venom and for trolls to stoke up trouble.

The phrases which you point to, used to desrcibe Cyprus and Greek-Cypriots, are indeed disgusting. As we've both pointed out before, if such language was used by ethnic minorities in Britain to desrcibe te British there would pogroms.

@Denton
I live in Britain because I was born here. So what? Cyprus is just as propserous, safe and pleasant country to live in - and in many ways more so.

Bravo Janet

Any Estate Agent's selling Karayinnas Properties should be avoided like The Plague

Corrupt Judge
Corrupt Developer
Corrupt Cyprus

That's very good news Janet.

I myself am in a very similar situation to Conor. My house has been sold twice with the further complication that my contract was unlawfully removed from the Land Registry by a crooked lawyer. The Land Registry have admitted liability for this but I remain unrecompensed. The develope still has my money too.

The whole Cypriot property market is rotten to the core.

Well done Janet, I hope a few more follow your lead.

Ooooooooo, this gets more and more interesting. I still work for a reputable Estate Agent in London, and we have taken a vote to remove ALL Cyprus Developers from our website until these issues show some sign of being at the very least investigated. I find it amazing after reading on here some of the messages, how naive some of you still are. Yes, my Ethics and Morals are very much still intact, although if I had continued to be involved with promoting Property in Cyprus it wouldn't have been for very long.......Yes there are still some good Developers out there, who do things by the book.( not many tho believe me ) But the thing is it is sometimes "taken out of their hands" to continue to do the right thing. I'm afraid this may be the scary bit for some of you...for our Comppny to be able to sell Property in Cyprus, and know the ins and outs of the "WHOLE" buying process for our Clients....we were trained by LAWYERS.
It seems to my colleagues and myself we were lied to, there is NO protection for our Clients on Cyprus. SIMPLE...we have a few cases where we are trying to sort out problems, after the verdict on Friday with Mr O'Dwyer, we don't hold out much hope.

@ Alex

Have you thought about this ruling in relation to the Cyprob/north property issues ? Its lawful now in the ROC for people to sell the same house twice and keep the money from both transactions ?

@ Alex

The other side of the story is given in violence. Do remember they remain convicted criminals even though the charge and sentence are under appeal, by the prosecution no less.

@ Alex

The other side decided to keep Conor money and sell the house again They showed two letters in Court to this affect, They decided this with out even a court order to back it up.

That was all they offered in defense.

So the Developer decides ie acts as his own judge on other people money and houses.

Not much of a defense !

What about the other side of the story? I have only seen one side so far!

It Appears it not the Cypriot Mail whose nerve is touched david

touched a nerve with the cowardly cyp mail

@ DREAM NO MORE.
I have been to Cyprus many times and find it a beatiful island and the people are very friendly, especially in the villages up in the hills. But i would never think of buying a property in Cyprus after reading so many reports about people like the O'Dwyers being swindled by corrupt developers supported by either inept or corrupt lawyers. While there are so many people in the courts and government willing to turn a blind eye to these discrepencies because the plaintive is not a Cypriot, no one will want to invest thousnds of pounds into a property only to risk lossing if the developer goes broke and the bank fore closes on a property that should by rights belong to the householder. It will be the common Cypriot people who suffer while the fat cats in government and the justice system line their pockets. Nobody will want to invest in Cyprus and the jewel of the Med will simply be forgotten. The rich will move else where and leave the poor to their own fate

Quite frankly no one is really safe buying titled or untitled property in Cyprus.

I am sure I am not alone but there is the other small problem of your solicitor not filing your contract with Land Registry until after your developer/previous owner/whoever registers a mortgage ahead of you.

There is a time gap between singing your contract and getting it registered.

Hahaha Dream on Dream No More

These things are said because they are the experiences that people have had with these thieves and scammers.

We recently had 1600 euro stolen from us by a thieving Larnaca developer who boasts on his website that they guarantee title deeds within 3 years. We were lucky enough to get rid of it, 6 years after taking delivery and no title deeds in sight but then this thieving scammer stopped the money from the proceeds stating it was IPT due.

Another thieving and lying developer.

As for Max being a brave man, well he is the only one thinking anyone would buy in Cyprus now. All I can say is that every village has to have its idiot and Max seems to be just that.

If there is one comment worthy of removal from this section, it is yours. You should be ashamed of yourself!

One wonders what Brits talk about during their dinner parties and down the pub at Paphos.
Actually, one does not have to wonder if he/she is a regular reader of this side.
A legitimate case for debate has been hijacked by bigots and merchants of hate.
In ordinary circumstances, comments like those posted here would be regarded as tantamount to racism. However, under the veil of this case, lurks hate of all things Cypriot.
I just cannon see such comments directed towards a particular group of people without raising an uproar in their societies.
One only has to look at some of the comments going under the banner of the " Dunkirk spirit" to realise the extent people go in support of the O'Dwyer's case. ( I wonder if O'Dwyer will want such support)
" Corrupt,evil,rotten Cyprus"
" in this uncivilized country"
" greed, nepotism, xenophobia"
" Cyprus is corrupt from top to bottom"
" this rotten island"
" leave the Turks to complete a job they should have finished 1974"
" 50 years ago they were murdering us but now they are only beating us"
" the island is a disgrace to the civilised world"
"The Orthodox bandits strike again" etc,etc,etc.
If comments such as these are not tantamount to hate mail I do not know what does.
By implication, such a society should not be allowed to exist since it possesses weapons of mass destruction like the above.
P.S I have been advised by British friends not to enter the mad house, as I would be mauled by the rottweilers. I have ignored their advice.
@ Max

You are a brave man!!

The property market is sinking fast yet the Housing commission and government seem either unable or unwilling to bring an end to the underhand dealing of the developers. Although Cypriots may well be accustomed to the way property is sold in Cyprus foreign investors are no longer willing to pay 100's of thousands for properties when a bank own the title deeds as collateral for a developers next project. Especially in the current financial climate.

@ Max

You are asking Estate Agents to question there ethics, Why not ask the same question of Banks ? or lawyers ?

Have you seen the AG or Cyprus Bar Association do anything positive for protecting ie buyers/sellers or Clients ?

What you have is a property market, Which everyone involved in does not appear to know Right from Wrong, and is determined to protect wrong doers in the hope more buyers come and they can practise there artful ways.

@ Max this Judge ruling threatens everything we take for granted the right to purchase and own our own house.

Ok Kev, what I'm trying to do here is make the Estate Agents question their ethics and morals. I don't want to come right out and say that people should not buy off someone who is supporting and condoning Karayiannis by selling their properties, that would be totally wrong of me. But if I was buying again I wouldn't......and I would be contacting all agents to verify this.

@ DB and Permanent tourist

At least sales contracts printed on toilet paper would be far more useful than one in the Land Registry.
Sad but true.

Max seems to be the only person, even including Cypriots, who has given Cyprus as a thumbs up on this thread.

Are you sure you don't live on planet no brain Max? No one with even half a brain would buy in Cyprus at the moment. You may have your fully accredited title deeds but your property is probably near on worthless anyway. Who would buy it?

It must be safer to buy in hongo pongo bongo land than Cyprus, and its peoples are probably prouder of their heritage than Cypriots are of theirs.

To Burt Weldon:

Which planet do YOU live on? And how dare you turn this case into a political statement? You miserable, inhuman being.
Restricting freedom of speech is your idea of protecting consumers? You are a major joke. Generalising and reflecting this judgement on all Cypriots is your idea of a commentary? If in Cyprus, please leave us alone. You sicken me.

On the actual subject, I'm sorry for Mr. O'Dwyer for what he has suffered. Having followed this case only through the media, it does appear to me that he and his family didn't deserve any of this. Unfortunately, a lot of contractors in Cyprus are very bad news. I hope the truth comes out at the end, and this bubble of corruption and lack of protection for buyers bursts in the face of every little man who steps on other people to make money.

People will always buy here its a fact, I did and I have no problems, a great developer, a great lawyer and I had my title deeds within 6 months, if I had to do it again then I would buy a resale with deeds, I admit I was very lucky. I'm just telling those people who will buy here to check their estate agents are not selling Karayiannis properties, its a start.

Max - only someone wearing 10 pairs of rose tinted specs could make a comment like yours.

Question, Max - would you tell your own mother that it is safe to invest her life savings or pension in a house here? (Let's assume that this property will /could / should become your inheritence. Still think it's a good idea?)

Max do you believe Karayiannis is the ONLY property developer in Cyprus to steer clear of?

The best thing they could check is that the property comes with clear Title Deeds.

Contract is meaningless after this case. In fact I saw a loo roll dispenser yesterday with the words printed on it:

Cypriot Land Registry Contracts - please take one.

Cyprus is still a fantastic place to live and people will always want to move here and buy property but they should check first that their agent does not promote Karayiannis properties.

@George from Berlin. The cat is well and truly out of the bag now! Cyprus has not realised that the internet is taking this story across the globe!

It's the hottest talk in town! The damage could be incalculable.

So, the more the merrier. It is about time that the whole world knew that it is considered legal in cyprus to steal someones money, re-sell their house to a third party, beat the crap out them and enjoy the full backing of the legal system and the Government who will treat you as heroes!

How can ANY estate agent sell any property now with any kind of conscience? Is the Government really so stupid that it cannot see what this ruling means?

Cyprus has chosen nepotism and corruption over justice. Let it now reap the rewards!

This place has so much to offer but the real concern must be now, 'has it just pressed the 'destruct button''?

After selling property in Cyprus for over 7 years, and witnessing first hand for the latter 2 years so much lying and cheating, I could not continue to promote Cyprus as a "safe" and wonderful place to retire/live/invest in.........This outcome has confirmed to myself and many "Clients" stuck in terrible circumstances out there that Cyprus is indeed stuck in the dark ages of corruption, where any wrongdoing will get no justice on the island whatsoever. I will NEVER rocommend to anyone to even look to purchasing a property on the island EVER.
Shame on Cyprus........and my heart goes out to Conner O'Dwyer and his Family at the shear frustration and anger they must be going through after all this time.The best way forward now is MEDIA attention, get as much air time anywhere as possible.......And I will confirm to any potential Clients that a "Specific Performance" certificate, plus your Land Registery stamp may as well be written on toilet paper.

Is the Cyprus Mail being a bit insensitive on their web site. Posting the story of Conor O'Dwyer below adverts for properties for sale on the island. After reading this story, which i have been following for some time, why would anyone want to buy a property on an island as corrupt as Cyprus. I have been to Cyprus several times over the years and i have noticed how much it has changed. Corruption in the government and the law system will simply undermine any hope of future investment and a beautiful island will become an embarrasment. The EU's skeleton that is kept locked in a closet under the stairs.

Christofias is a complete embarrassment, he is an affront, not only to Akel, and that takes some doing........but he is a complete embarrassment to the republic, what on earth the other EU leaders think when they see and listen to him, one can only imagine.

To the people of the republic I would say this, how on earth, given that you elected the articulate and erudite Glafcos Clerides, a true statesman, astute and educated, erudite in every sense of the word, how on earth could you elect Christofias, an individual bereft of the most basic communicative skills, even in his own language.

Sometimes you get the government you deserve, you have a couple of years to reflect and then reverse this travesty.

When you take over presidency of the EU in 2012, for your sake I hope that televised appearances by Comrade Tof, will be kept to a minimum.

@ George from Berlin.

I am pleased to hear that the German press is taking this, the Conor O'Dwyer case, up !
Your comment about the CY president is the same opinion of many Cypriots and foreign residents !
Why can't he just step down like President Kühler of Germany did last year ? I know the situation was different, he did it because he did not agree to sign a law which the government wanted to pass, because in his impression it was wrong for the people.
Christophias has NO pride and feels NO shame !
Here on Cyprus the word LAW is just a word in the dictionary unless it brings in money for the government and or corrupt people.

Corrupt judge.
corrupt developers
Shame on Cyprus

Conor lawyer was very clear in his interview.

Mr ODywer has a Valid Contract registered and stamped by the Land registry showing he is the Owner of the House. This under Cyprus law shows he is the owner.

The developer took and kept his money, They then sold his house to a third party.

The Judge ruling means homeowners are at risk from developers doing this. At the heart of the matter is the Rule of Law without it you have a lawless society.

You are right James. This issue is way too important to have the thread closed because peaople state their opinion as fact.

In my opinion, it is quite clear that the Judge got the decision wrong. I think she stated that she could not find proof that there was intent to defraud. How that can be I really cannot fathom.

To defraud is to illegally take money or property (in Conor's case they've taken both).

To legally cancel a contract without agreement a court order is required. Not only was one never granted but was never even applied for.

Ergo, Conor was defrauded. Does the Judge think he was defrauded accidentally?

I suspect that only Mr O'Dwyer is surprised. I wish him luck with his appeal and Cypriots with any sense will do the same.

@ Freedom/DR AM.

The Judge is a Female I do think with opinions running high we should stick to facts, because the ruling she has given has huge implications concerning Cyprus.

I myself am of the opinion she has got it wrong, I think Conors lawyer interview last night on Radio he also felt the same. Now because this case is such high profile, it needs urgent action by Such as the President, AG, Supreme Court to come out (within days)
to reassure all that Cyprus still has the Rule of Law for ALL.

This Judge has put the credibility of the ROC as a modern EU state in doubt, I think anybody reading the Posts in the CM and other forums just shows the anger.

I note that the judges name is not mentioned.

probably related in some way, through distant cousins or may even be a shareholder of the developing company.

This judge should have his head tested to see if he is actually of sound mind to do the job. Seems like he is out of touch with the real world.

Banana Republic may fit this country now down to a tee.

@ Dr AM

Is there Factual proof the Judge and Developer are related ?

I think with feelings running so high a post like this if not true is very dangerous.

The law system in Greek Cyprus should not have gone bankruptcy

Cyprus! Again! Once more spoiled!
Capturing the rights of Brits brutally.

The crisis in economies should not divert the helens to immoral ways.

There is a tomorrow of today!

What is gained/stolen by this O’Dwyer case may well damage further than the gain!

@ George from Berlin

Hi George

We would be very interested to hear of any media coverage in Germany.

At present we have a group of individuals each lobbying their MP for a meeting in Westminster to discuss Cyprus property problems. We already have commitment from 1 MP to host this meeting and from others to attend.

To everyone, pleade remember that although you may no longer reside in the UK, your previous constituency MP still represents your interests.

its about time we in our thousands demostrate out side every public building in cyprus, that would get the world something to talk about and maybe, they will think. the only way is unite thousands of voices are stronger then poor mr o,dwyer

@hello from Nicosia,

Thank you for your comment. please note that the slug is generated from key words that are added long after the story is written, in order to link the story with others that might be of interest.

In this instance, we felt the allegation of fraud merited the inclusion of the term 'corruption'.

The Cyprus Mail does not believe, and has no reason to suspect that there was any corruption involved in the court's decision.

Further evidence that RoC has the best Judicial System money can buy.

The UK government should make a clear statement that buying any property in Cyprus should be avoided at all costs! No exceptions!

It should be in every paper, on every TV programme. If this isnt the final nail in the corrupt cyprus property market then I dont know what is.

Anyone with any moral fibre ought to be blasting this across their Facebook and through whatever other media outlets there are. There can be no more hiding from injustice and corruption for 'hard done by cyprus' and certainly no more bleating about 'their property in the north'.

And as for Christophias having the EU presidency, that will be the biggest, most laughable thing ever to have happened. To call this place a banana republic is a slanderous comment against bananas!

Conor's Lawyer speaks out

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2011/01/21/conor-odwyers-lawy...

Edward comments:
"Take it as gospel, anyone from outside Cyprus suing either a Greek Cyprot individual or business has no chance, no matter how solid or strong their case my be. Nationalism closes ranks and sentences handed out to these developers after beating the life out of this gentleman is ample evidence of this."

I cannot help but agree with this.

"The status quo of back-handers, rewards, incentives, bribery, and the "look after me and I'll look after you" must prevail and is solidly defended."

Having first hand experience of friends and neighbours who have been told they have no chance thro' the Cyp legal system but to contact the local Mafia who will DEFINITELY get them their money back (minus 30%) and they DID.

A sad reflection of a "modern" Cyprus within the EU but a continuance of practice going back decades.

"Conor has been robbed and so it seems, 130,000 others still hoping for their Title Deeds."

Fact is - about 100,000 of them are Cypriots and most of them don't WANT their title deeds - they don't need them and don't want to have to pay for them.

"A sad reflection of a "modern" Cyprus within the EU but a continuance of practice going back decades."

SAD sums up how I feel. I love Cyprus and was hoping to spend the rest of my days here. I am rethinking now.

I cannot believe I have actually made a protest to the right quarters about the fitness of Cyprus taking over the EU rotating presidency for 6mos next year. But I have. And I feel it is justified.

@ Marian (and others)

You are quite right. After this scandalous judgement, no-one would dare invest in a property in Cyprus
from now on.

Although I am a Cypriot living and working in Berlin, my German wife and I would never dream of buying a house in Cyprus-not to mention living in a totally corrupted and uncivilized society.

Unfortunately, the only way to overturn this situation in particular and return some credibility to Cyprus as a civilised country in general, is a co-ordinated complaint through ECHR. But how many people present in this forum (and overall) are willing to participate?

@Ziad. Come on, you know this issue is not about Brits being 'holier than thou'. Are we to conclude that you honestly believe that all the institutionalized corruption that has been piled onto Conor is defensible just because he is British? The preponderance of adverse comments from Brits merely reflects the fact that the preponderance of foreign buyers (and therefore those who have suffered most from the depradations of the corrupt system) happen to be Brits.

It is all too easy for some who are not affected to sit in splendid armchair comfort and isolation in London etc and snipe at those in the thick of it in Cyprus. Despite your anti-British rhetoric you indicated in an earlier blog that you live (willingly?)in the UK. Why is that?

personally if my childrens food had been taken away by crooks like these i would get justice one way or another its not that hard to do and seems to be quite acceptable in cyprus with all the bombs and arson attacks that go on , shame about that i heard the news this morning they must have upset someone they sold a house to ha ha

cyprus used to be a place well known for its hospitality,
now it seems to be comiting suicide.

First of all I think the article is weak since it does not explain the reasoning of the court. I must assume the judge must have made some sort of reasoning...

Some comments below hint at O'Dwyer not having made the payments in time according to the contract. Possibly there was a reason for that, and possibly the contract stated what would happen if payments were not made.

Although there are certainly honest professional developers, I would also agree most are crooks. And in addition, justice in Paralimni is only for locals. But still, the judgement should have had some sort of reasoning...

http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:64cc324b0e4b3761208060bfc3da045b:622555c...

No real surprise here!
Land deeds issue on this Island has been an ongoing dispute since independence back in 1960.
With the inflax in the last couple of decades of overseas buyers, recent 'fake' market boom and lack of land laws to cope with the many loop-holes in the system that some(many) so-called developers used against their happy sun-seeking clients has brought us to this status quo today.
Top it up with the lastest court judgement looks that this sad issue has still got life in it.
Regards EU etc there are simple a bigger joke than this issue!
Late tip of the day: Cypeland is simple for the cype elite, real rich folk or the odd retirement, Period. Those that think they have it OK, good for you, just pray you do not fall foul of the 'system' here, just speaking from experience!
p.s cypes never realy cared etc, They think they have the sun to sell 24/7, maybe they are wright!

@ Allan from london?

What ever happens in britain you always have another choice...
Here in cyprus there is only one choice usually, thats why we all are pissed off on this site!

@ Dream no more

To help you understand this case and its implications.

A ROC Court has decided you can take another person house and sell it, Throw in a Good Beating if the owner complains.

So does this mean the houses taken in the North is also legal ?

Take it as gospel, anyone from outside Cyprus suing either a Greek Cyprot individual or business has no chance, no matter how solid or strong their case my be. Nationalism closes ranks and sentences handed out to these developers after beating the life out of this gentleman is ample evidence of this.

The status quo of back-handers, rewards, incentives, bribery, and the "look after me and I'll look after you" must prevail and is solidly defended.

A sad reflection of a "modern" Cyprus within the EU but a continuance of practice going back decades.

andreas agisilaou from tanzania,

You are correct, I made a typo and the name should have read Mugabe. Might I suggest before you criticise others for the occasional typo, you check your own post; a brief scan of your comments threw up at least 31 grammatical and spelling mistakes.

As for that well worn phrase 'if you don't like it, go home', there are a great many who don't like what is happening in this country and would gladly return whence they came but they have been duped by a corrupt system that prevents them selling their property so therefore they are trapped and cannot 'go home'. There are, of course others whose 'home' is Cyprus and who are equally ashamed and disgusted at the way things have degenerated here but instead of running away choose to try to right the many wrongs that have spoiled this country and brought it international shame.

I reckon the judge was threatened in this case-I think I have come across the lady in the past ,and she is as honest as the day is long .
Thats before the *****got to her

The message from the court is loud and clear.

ALIENS SHOULD NEVER ATTEMPT TO BUY A PROPERTY IN CYPRUS!!!!!!.

Caveat Emptor

Conor has been robbed and so it seems, 130,000 others still hoping for their Title Deeds

As it is quite obvious that Cypriot judicial system is as corrupt as Robert Mugabe and as much use as achocolate fire guard, maybe people should just deliver the best justice possible and stop buying or renting property from Karayannas.

One more thing... Conor had one of the best layers in Cyprus... if he did not manage to convince the shortsighted judge no other law firm or lawyer in the whole of Cyprus could have won the case either... simply put Conor stood no chance...

I am afraid that is Cyprus for you. We wouldn't buy a house here as the developers seem to be all at it. Beware if you are considering buying a house especially if you are BRITISH.

Dora wrote, "Greek Cypriots had stolen Varosha from Turkish Cypriots."

Please ask Denktash what he did with the 1.5 million pounds sterling ?

===============================================

KIBRISLI publishes documents proving that all the compensation rights regarding the Evkaf foundation's property were denounced in 1959; Denktas and the Director of the Evkaf try to declare this information to be untrue

Turkish Cypriot daily KIBRISLI newspaper (08 and 09.10.03) publishes a document both in English and Turkish languages proving that the Turkish Cypriot community had renounced in 1959 all its compensation rights regarding the property of Evkaf religious foundation. Under the document are the signatures of the Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf Denktas and the late Vice President of the Republic of Cyprus Fazil Kucuk.

Under the title 'Our people did not deserve this', the paper wrote, inter alia, the following yesterday on the issue:'With an agreement they made with the colonial administration, they donated to the British all the compensation rights of our people regarding the Evkaf property.

They signed that the Turkish Cypriot community would not demand compensations in return for one million and five hundred thousand sterling pounds. Now they are claiming that they would appeal to court and demand their rights.

It was decided that five hundred thousand pounds would be deposited into an account in 'Turk Bankasi' in the name of Kucuk and Denktas as 'urgent' needs. The two leaders noted in the answering letter they had written that they were accepting the proposal.

In the letter he wrote, the British governor asked (from the two leaders to accept) the commitment that no financial claims would be raised in the name of the Turkish community and the Evkaf. The leaders gave this commitment in return of one and a half million sterling pounds. Meanwhile, it was alleged that Dr. Kucuk did not want to sign this document, but he had been convinced by Denktas.'

Y Mustafa wrote, "If you are not Greek you will receive no justice in the vacant areas."

Really? Just ask these Turkish Cypriots.

===========================================

Supreme Court backs Turkish Cypriot refugees

By John Leonidou Published on December 8, 2006

A SUPREME Court judge yesterday ruled that Turkish Cypriot refugees, who moved to the north of the island after 1974, are entitled to compensation for land that was expropriated by the government.

Kiazim Halit, Ayla Halit, Dogan Halit, Alev Nezihe Kavas (Halit) and Zeki Halit had appealed to the Supreme Court through their lawyer Christos Klerides, upon discovering that houses, electricity pylons and stores were being built on their land in the Paphos district village of Mandria.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:thko94An4psJ:beta.c...

It is fraud.. very clear and the judge's verdict on the case should have been that the developer pays every penny he owes to Conor and sent the developer to prison... a warning to other corruped developers in the making but what the judge has demonstrated was to rubber stamp further frauds by developers and basically saying it is OK to sell and resell someone else's property.. this whole case will be a laughing stock on TV in the UK when it is televised this year and a huge warning to Europe not to invest their money in buying property in Cyprus... it is unfortunate as there are some honest developers and because of the verdict all will be tarnished with the same brush... Conor needs to take it further and have the judge's verdict overturned..

Such a corrupt island should not be allowed in the EU How much were the various judges paid for adjourning O'Dwyer's case, month after month? Then after reluctantly finding the developers guilty of Grevious Bodily Harm, they gave them a slap on the wrists and a suspended jail sentence! We all know how they enjoy giving the maximum sentence to visitors.This is the best demonstration to clearly disuade foreigners not to buy property from a Cypriot. It will give the rest of us great pleasure to see their economy fail in the not too distant future-what goes around comes around.

@ Av from Uk/ Paralimni.
You say you will be interested to see what happens when Cyprus takes over the presidency of the EU parliment in 2012 ?
Well, don't be surprised if dozens, (if not hundreds), of people who have been duped by, ie: The Cypriot government, Cypriot lawyers, Cypriot builders are all there when the Cypriot "president" arrives with his accolade....
.....READY to PELT THEM ALL with bad eggs and juicy Cypriot tomatoes !!!

@ Dora,
You're allowed to proceed to the ECHR if domestic legal remedies are exhausted. With he imminent appeal of O'Dwyer to the Cyprus Supreme Court the ruling shall be on table in about two years. The subsequent procedure in Strasbourg takes another two-two and half years. Nine years of his life, while this case could be settled in six months! This is what no court in Cyprus or Europe can compensate.
The only remaining remedy is to inundate your MEP's with your written letters and e-mails to question and request the full implementation of the Acquis Commune, and the Human Rights in Cyprus.

I have a solution to propose to this issue. How about you Brits petition the British government to cede the SBA's to you, so you can start up an indepenfent republic thereby no longer having to deal with those duplicitous Greek-Cypriots? You can elect the great and the good amongst you to act as your leaders; I see Gavin making a fine President, his erudition, grasp of the facts and the calm, logical way he makes his points being everything one could ask for in a leader; Ralph, with his extensive knowledge of and immense respect for other cultures, is a shoe-in for foreign minister; and you can set up the world's first ministry for animal rights; I see Jon Frazier as being immensely suitable to head that department.

Just think what you can accomplish: the world's first corruption free country, a place where those without the highest of moral standards will be ostracised, a state where the animals of the world can roam free; Blake's dream of the English buiding Jersualem coming true, albeit not in England's green and pleasant land but in Cyprus' rather parched one.

@ Michael from Limassol
Agree with you, an irrevocable bank guarantee can provide safety, and so to see, in your case all went OK and deterred the developer to neglect delivering the title deeds. BUT! If the developer went bankrupt during the construction (maybe fraudulently) then you are in the queue behind the IRS and other banks, social funds etc. with your guarantee. Not so bright outlook then...

Greek Cypriots had stolen Varosha from Turkish Cypriots.

Also, the title deeds of many fields/properties in South Cyprus belong to Turkish Cypriots.

Nezire Adnan Sofi earned € 500 000 from Greek Cyprus via European Court of Human Rights.

The only language that Greek Cyprus understands is the language of ECHR.

Brits! Apply to ECHR to take your right.

THE ORIGINAL TITLE DEEDS THAT BELONGS TO TURKISH CYPRIOTS

w w w.mediafire.com/i/?nbg7b19q6rlr27y
w w w.mediafire.com/i/?cz6ys4chgnql3cu
w w w.mediafire.com/i/?lnmp170c6h62q7m
w w w.mediafire.com/i/?65tcu94z5c6v5jh
w w w.mediafire.com/i/?f0i3yhou9e8u1mj

Seems Cyprus has always been totally corrupt but it has been successfully covered up in the past. You can't do that in today's world because of how quickly information spreads via the web. Without exception in today's world anybody thinking of buying property in Cyprus would browse the internet on the subject before committing. What are they going to see when they do? This verdict and the ongoing title deeds fiasco will haunt the country for years to come.

Another example of GC justice. If you are not Greek you will receive no justice in the vacant areas. Do you wonder that the TCs are determined never to be a minority under the GCs. We had all this sort of justice and worse during the period 1963 to 1974 and say never again. The only system we can accept is one GC and one TC judge and a neutral presiding judge in the middle. I would recommend Mr. Dwyer for this important post. LOL

This court ruling is amazing. Are the Greek Cypriots crazy shooting themselves in the foot like this? It's going to be a severe blow to the construction industry in south Cyprus.

The Turks will be celebrating!

I feel so sorry for Conor. This is another nail in the property coffin for Cyprus. Do they really think that following the huge amount of coverage this saga has had in the UK media, and this joke legal ruling, that any sane person will think of buying in Cyprus now? I don't doubt that thousands will also look elsewhere for their holidays in future.

Are you people criticising a "member of the EU"? If what is being said is true, then the EU has made a mistake in accepting the South as a member before getting them to aligning their laws and procedures to that of the EU! We know the North is not any better; however at least the government here took steps to stop unscrupolous developers from exploiting foreing investors = they are also looking in two cases as to how a bank could reposess properties already sold and paid for. There is still hope of recovery!

Remember that 68% of the people in the South, think that "ethnic diversity does not enrich their society"! So what the hell are you doing investing there?

Mr Christofias,

Do you seriously think you are going to strut your stuff in front of EU member states without derision and sneers? No wonder Angela Merkell only spent a couple of hours here; and you can bet she counted her fingers after shaking hands with any Cypriots.

Sorry, that last remark is not worthy of the many honest and decent Cypriots who are justifiably ashamed of what this country has become and despair of ever being able to hold their heads high and declare their nationality without others walking away in disgust.

It's not their fault this country is likened to Magabe's, it's yours; and every politician, lawyer, developer, bank etc who have their snouts in the same trough.

How dare you, or any other politician complain about the Turks stealing property etc when your own judiciary make sure the same thing is being done to others?

This verdict only serves to confirm to the world what a rotten and corrupt place Cyprus has become and it no longer has any place in the commonwealth.

haven't been following the case. What springs to mind is maybe the judge is related to the developer or maybe something more intimate?

I hear on the grapevine that the new Karayiannas marketing campaign will read thus:

Buy from Karayiannas

We may pretend to sell you a house but you won't know if someone else has already paid for it.

A free mini-break in Larnaca Intensive Care comes to you courtesy of the Managing Director, his son Marios and a third employee, all convicted criminals.

I'm coming over to Cyprus next week. I hadn't intended to bring any luggage but will now pay my £13 and fill my suitcase with food. I will never put another cent into the Cypriot economy that I don't have to.

@S Georgiou and others. You are quite right that corruption exists everywhere in the world. The UN defines corruption at two levels: 1. Petty Corruption (individuals or a small group engage in activities to gain unfair advantage - financial, job etc - against the public interest). The UK MPs' expenses frauds are an example. Backhanders, 'speed payments' and jobs-for-the boys are others. 2. Grand Corruption, where corrupt practices against the public interest have become, in effect, instruments of state policy. Allegations of corrupt decisions about government contracts that favour various interested would be an example.

One might reasonably argue that the Cyprus government's failure, and even resistance, to clean up the Title Deeds Scandal over so many years is tantamount to grand corruption. One group (developers, banks etc) gain unfair financial advantage and asset control over another group (buyers) against the public interest.

However, it could also be argued that the tentacles and scale of corruption are so vast and all-pervasive in Cyprus that the UN terminology is inadequate. A new term is required to describe adequately the phenomenon in Cyprus. How about Sovereign Corruption?

Unscrupulous developers and corrupt court system.
Shame on the Larnaca court.
As a Cypriot I'm ashamed that these judge is letting this corrupt developer get away with this.
SHAME, shame.

It is common knowledge that no one should purchase property that does not have title deeds. If it is new property and the developer is a decent one then the title deeds are issued within 6 months. The best way to be safeguarded if you are going to pay money up front for property that does not yet have title deeds is to ask for a bank guarantee from the developer. I did it twice, the developers in both cases issued me with a bank guarantee for my deposits and this also forced them to ensure the title deeds were issued as quickly as possible.

This is what lawyers should advise their clients to do.
No one should purchase property that does nto have a title deed and if the property is new and the title deed has not yet been issued then the buyer should be given a bank guarantee for the deposit.

Perhaps in th elight of this ruling the UK courst might like to revisit the Orams case

No real surprice here!
Land deeds issue on this Island has been an ongoing dispute since independence back in 1960.
With the inflax in the last couple of decades of overseas buyers, recent 'fake' market boom and lack of land laws to cope with the many loop-holes in the system that some(many) so-called developers used against their happy sun-seeking clients has brought us to this status quo today.
Top it up with the lastest court judgement looks that this sad issue has still got life in it.
Regards EU etc there are simple a bigger joke than this issue!
Late tip of the day: Cypeland is simple for the cype elite, real rich folk or the odd retirement, Period. Those that think they have it OK, good for you, just pray you do not fall foul of the 'system' here, just speaking from experience!
p.s cypes never realy cared etc, They think they have the sun to sell 24/7, maybe they are right!

RALPH shut up muppet. I'm with O'Dwyer and yes developers here are shonky we don't need muppets like you turning this into another Political propoganda coup for the North where I have no doubt you own somebody elses land a bit samey really? I think the word hypocirte comes to mind. Also to those giving it the ROC corrupt routine maybe so but then again who can forget the MPs expenses controversy or the WMD lies of the former PM of the UK I could go on.If I was the ROC government I would ask an independant force like Inter-pol to investigate the whole thing from Karayiannis down to the lawyers and courts.

Fantastic. Let the world see what we suffered under the RoC Justice system from 1963 to 1974 and since too with trying to claim our lands back.
I dare them to say, it'll be alright, trust me.
Yeah right and pigs will fly. All we need to do is start rearing pigs in the north. That should be fun.
Don't Give up Mr O'Dwyer, off to the European court, you will get your house, your money and compensation too. It's the only thing these persons of dubious parentage understand.

this case was only about whether it could be proven that there was intnet to defraud and not about the ownership issue.

has anyone read the english transcript of the assualt case? it made for an interesting read

http://www.lyingbuilder-thetruth.com/images/decision_en.pdf

As a GC Refugee who would like his property back in the North, I have to say this judgement ensures that no GC refugee has the right of return or restitution because our own Courts say so!

This is a scandalous stain on the ROC and unless this banal judgement is reversed, then there is no hope for anyone.

What a sad indictment of the Cyprus judicial system. It provides unscrupulous developers with a blank cheque, drawn on the banks of foreigners, ready for fleecing!

Keep away potential investors!

I am not aware of the details for the case so I can't speak for either side.

But personally, this case has - as a whole - been very damaging to all parties involved.

Still, I can't help but feel for the little guy. I mean, my logic tells me that O'Dwyer wouldn't be stupid enough to start a mammoth litigation process if he wasn't confident that any injustice was done.

I hope that if justice has failed then the case continues until the it is resolved in a just manner. On the other hand, if the outcome was just, then Cyprus law needs an excellent PR campaign to do damage control and promote facts.

why shouldnt Conor go to the press ,or share his plight on the internet, or doesnt freedom of speech apply in RoC (region of corruption!)!oh sorry,we have freedom of speech,but USE IT AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!
I sincerely hope anybody reading this Newspaper overseas can inform everybody they can of the result of this case and the perils of buying property in Cyprus,this decision affects everybody,including Cypriots that have,or may purchase property!

Cyprus cannot hold EU Presidency with a corrupt law society.
I would be interested to find out who are real lawyers,with full law training......not just advocates,with two years under their belt and acting as lawyers.
I suggest everyone ask for certificates of qualification when visiting lawyers.

It is the role of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe to supervise the execution of Court judgments. This body cannot force states to comply, and the ultimate sanction for non-compliance is expulsion from the Council of Europe.

I would suggest once Connor has gone down every avenue, and receives no justice,go to the Human Rights court.

An outrageous miscarriage of justice.

This poor man got beat up and cheated by the developer.

Shame on the Larnaca Court.

We are with you Connor.

God Bless and the best of luck in your appeal, Connor.

Judy from UK, why should Conor's money be repaid only when the other case is heard? Why wasn't Conor's money repaid immediately when Karayiannis cancelled his contract? which he wasn't allowed to do btw. Why wasn't Conor's money repaid as soon as he illegally re-sold his house to someone else (oh hang on, that wasn't illegal was it) Nevertheless, since Karayiannis did re-sell Conor's house for a higher price, he presumably had more than enough spare cash to repay Conor without him having to resort to court, any honest developer would've done so immediately. Why does Conor have to go to court yet again? He has a wife children to support and wants to get on with his life.

The only good thing is the Michelle Macdonald will never, ever be able to sell that house again, Conor's name is the Land Registry and there it will stay. Good investment Michelle! I'm sure your neighbours adore you too.

@ change of front heading to lost dog? The property issue is getting too hot to handle for some!

No real surprice here!
Land deeds issue on this Island has been an ongoing dispute since independence back in 1960.
With the inflax in the last couple of decades of overseas buyers, recent 'fake' market boom and lack of land laws to cope with the many loop-holes in the system that some (many) so-called developers used against their happy sun-seeking clients has brought us to this status quo today.
Top it up with the lastest court judgement looks that this sad issue has still got life in it.
Regards EU etc thats a bigger joke than this issue!
Late tip of the day: Cypeland is simple for the cype elite, real rich folk or the odd retirement, Period. Those that think they have it Ok, good for u, just pray you do not fall fail of the 'system' here, just speaking from experience!
p.s cypes do not care etc, They think they have the sun to sell 24/7, maybe they are right!

r

@ Hello from Nicosia

According to your Cypriot Judge, there is no occupied north. She said it's ok to sell a property that belongs to someone else no matter where it is. That is now enshrined in your case law until it is overturned.

And for your information the Turkish media approached Conor at Earls Court in London. He did not approach them. That is where your whole system falls down, you think you can change laws you don't like just because the person exposes your corrupt practices. They should not, in any event, affect lawful facts.

No longer will I have any sympathy for a Greek with property in the North of Cyprus that has been similarly acquired to that of O'Dwyer's. The lot of you make me sick particularly those who say 'I am ashamed to be a Cypriot'. How many times have I heard that ? You don't do anything about it though do you ?

I hope all mainland Greeks and other Europeans will wake up and get off this once honest island and leave the Turks to complete a job they should have finished in 1974.

No real surprice her!
Land deeds issue on this Island has been an ongoing dispute since independence back in 1960.
With the inflax in the last couple of decades of overseas buyers, recent 'fake' market boom and lack of land laws to cope with the many loop-holes in the system that some (many) so-called developers used against their happy sun-seeking clients has brought us to this status quo today.
Top it up with the lastest court judgement looks that this sad issue has still got life in it.
Regards EU etc thats a bigger joke than this issue!
Late tip of the day: Cypeland is simple for the cype elite, real rich folk or the odd retirement, Period. Those that think the have it Ok, good for u, just pray you do not fall fail of the 'system' here, just speaking from experience!
p.s cypes do not care etc, They think they have the sun to sell 24/7, maybe they are right!

It may have helped O’Dwyer's situation if he hadn't gone to the newspapers in the Turkish Occupied areas in order to have his case splurged over their front pages.

Though it has all been said here, weight of comment is an important indication of the strength of feeling concerning this matter. I merely record my dismay at the way this affair has been allowed to unfold.

This is akin to the law of the old Wild West not a modern European democracy.

I am so disgusted about this verdict, and really feel for Connor & his family for their injustice. Although there are some aspects of the country I like, I just don't know how Cyprus got into the EU. Their practices are not like other countries in europe,and those in power appear to behave in a ferral & corrupt manner. They are just not fit to be part of the european union. Unfortunately law abiding cypriots will continue to be tarred with the same brush because of them , and they will continue to struggle getting tourists and property buyers. I'm curious to see what happens when Cyprus takes up the Presidancy in 2012.

Simple:
NEVER, NEVER buy proerty in Cyprus.I have advised hundreds of prople to follow this simple advice.We should all do the same.

This is yet another sad example of what this rotten island and its so-called judicial system is all about: corruption.

I have friends here in Germany who bought a holiday appartment in Larnaca (Cyprus) in 2003 and paid in cash. Believe it or not, they only received the title deeds last year after they lost their patience and said to the developer that they would take legal action. From what I am told, this is by no means an isolated case.

Usually when a property is sold the title deeds are issued within a couple of weeks. This is standard procedure in most EU countries. And if there is the slightest indication of fraud, buyers are legally protected. But this obviously does not apply to a country like Cyprus. I wouldn't be suprised if the judge in this case is either a relative or a good friend of the developer. Bribery is not uncommon in Cyprus.

I am ashamed I have Cypriot blood in my veins.

SPEECHLESS!

Shame on cyprus
I wasn't in court yesterday I'm only saying was was told to me from friends in cyprus .
And as I have said Im not siding with anyone and yes it's wrong the way the system works here but there seems to be alot of evidence that has not been fully looked at the way that Conor shouted was the wrong thing to do to upset so many Cypriots that are all related in some way or another was it not best to yes have the support from the public but the internet and shame on cyprus
was the lying builder better?

All countries are corrupt, some are just better at hidding corruption!

Hi every one, I think it is a disgrace how he has been treat and the way the government are not backing him up, As every one knows he got his house resold and nothing has been done to help this man to get it back. I think the system in Cyprus has let him down and lots more owners, no the wonder lots of owners are selling up and moving out.
Dave

Judy Uk

You should have introduced yourself yesterday when you were in court I would love to have met you.

You missed out that the judge accepted information from the defence from a solicitor who is the subject of an ongoing police inquiry. You also missed out that Conor's contract for "Specific Performance" is the only contract that is lodged at the Land Registry.

To be specific the money that Conor has paid to the Developer is not quite £100,000 it is only £92,000.

Yes maybe showing up at the house with cameras and equipment was the wrong thing to do but the house is STILL registered in Conor's name.

Is it the right to drag a man out of his car, assault him, put him in hospital for 6 days because...... you have called the police and told them you were going to do it.

Jacs im not on anyone's side I was saying that you all comment but how many court hearings have you been to ? I have family that have property in cyprus with no land registry stamp and have found out no permission to build the house they too are taking there developer to court but have kept a low profile in order to seek justice they are retired and stand to loose everything the same and nothing in the uk to go to .
They have support from neighbours and have been to the property support group to get as much advice as possible .

Previous comment should of course be addressed to Judy from UK!!!

Jusy from UK - if I didn't already know that you were on the Karayiannas side I would have realised from the indecipherable rubbish you print!

Disgusting attitude, I am sure the appeal judge will see things differently

Shame on us, Cyprus what are you doing? You are allowing the world to see how corrupt we really are and we are an EU member country???? There is more to this decision than meets the eye. Why on God's earth would the Judge give a verdict which clearly baffles everyone and makes no sense, the Judge is also making Connor pay for all the Legal Expenses??? WOW. Connor, its time to move the case up to the ECHR. Keep fighting and don't give up, Justice will be served!!

Why dont they sell the Cyprus Court Houses to Qatar ?

Here's hoping that the Foreign Office now come out and openly say that people should not buy in Cyprus without title deeds.

As this case clearly demonstrates very clearly, there is no legal protection or justice for foreigners who have bought property in Cyprus.

If developers have a mind to they can sell your home to someone else and keep the money you have paid them and get away with it.

The Attorney General refused to bring a criminal case against Karayiannas for selling Conor's home twice and left Conor with no option but to pursue a private criminal at his expense.

In her ruling yesterday, the judge agreed with the Attorney General that double selling is not a crime.

Greed, nepotism, corruption and xenophobia are destroying this island - and they are destroying people's lives.

@ ALL
When it comes to Banana Republics, Cyprus is the best of all!!! and you are just jealous!!!

Shame on Cyprus! Yes, you are corrupt!

I look forward to the EU Presidency, when all people still not holding title deeds will be standing at the Presidential Palace for all the world press to see.

Are any of us protected by the law in ANY shape or form??

This will only have implications in the property market, lack of trust will be a factor on not buying property in Cyprus, really interesting how it was obvious from all aspects that there was wrongdoing, he is being punished for making a big deal out of it and making people aware of the scammers in the property business.

Keep up the good fight Connor. Banana republic mis-run by a shower of incompetent corrupt self- serving crooks. Their time is almost up; you'll shortly see why the need for bullet-proof cars and fast personal jets....

BANANA REPUBLIC SAYS IT ALL !!!

Unbelievable.

Paphos-Man is correct; Cypriots don't like Brits they only like their money. But don't feel bad because Cypriots don't like anybody, especially "Charlies" who don't fall for their scams so easily. I have been warning friends in the UK for years not to buy property in this uncivilised country.

This verdict sums up what a corrupt, evil, rotten country Cyprus is.

I'm ashamed to have Cypriot blood...

Ooh ITV Homes from Hell are going to just love this latest chapter...... Karayiannis might not have spent any time in jail this time (as they did a couple of months ago), but they will and they are finished anyway as far as selling any houses to foreigners go, I can't believe the Cypriots would buy off them either, so concentrate on your limo business guys, but hey Marios Karayiannos, you have 11 points on your licence already, make sure you don't accidentally bump into any other hire cars, drag the driver out of the car, kick their heads and kidneys in and put them in hospital for a week or you might get another 2 points awarded to you.

Cyprus the country that likes to say yes, yes we are corrupt,yes we change the laws to suit ourselves,yes we do not protect none Cypriots,yes we should not be allowed in the EU,yes we know this decision will be seen around Europe and property sales will fall again

I was stunned when I heard this verdict yesterday. I was distraught for Conor & Michaela and I wept for Cyprus.

How can this country allow such rubbish to be perpetrated in their courts in the name of justice?? Justice is an alien concept here I'm afraid and unless the Attorney General uses some wisdom - and fast - his country will be the laughing stock of Europe.

This verdict must be repealed at the earliest possible moment, not only for the sake of Conor & Michaela, but for the sake of Cyprus and its reputation - which at the moment is residing a cm from the gutter, and for all of us fools who have bought property here on the premise that so long as it was registered in our name at the Land Registry and we had specific performance we were secure. What a joke!! The crooked developers here - and there are several I'm afraid, one of them present in Larnaca court yesterday - will have a field day. What will you tell these purchasers Mr Clerides - who after having bought in good faith and assuming that they had the security of Cypriot law around them - find that a developer can simply waltz in and not only take their house but keep their money as well????

This is what your judge has done Mr Clerides - how proud are you or Cyprus of that odious situation which passes for justice here???

I have always thought it was something of a joke for Cyprus to be acepted into the EU, and I really hope that the chickens will come home to roost and they realise that there is a price to be paid for taking barrowloads of cash. This judgement may well be that bete noir.

As for your comments JBR I think washing your mouth out with soap would be too good for you and your idiotic comments. The 'simple solution' as you put it to simply give Conor back his money is no solution at all. Wrongs need to be addressed and righted and the precedents which have been set, repealed. Conor & Michaela have suffered more than enough at the hands of this so-called justice system here in Cyprus, but there are also long-reaching implications for all without title deeds and this has to be righted immediately. There is only one person who can do this, so let us see you in action Mr Clerides NOW!!

I am a furious how the law can be bended for the ones that can pay the judge on their favour! I don't understand how they could had done this, once you buy a house you don't expect all these problems to arise, the developer took the money and the house, obviously a thief and liar! Shame on Cyprus legal system for allowing one of their own to do this and walk out free of charges. I am disgusted of my country.

@ Zeytin.
I repeat your question !

"How the hell was this country allowed into the EU ?"

No longer can Cypriots complain that land and property in the north has been stolen from them. Case law now says it's ok.

Sic transit gloria juris Kypriae. It simply hastens the collapse of the Cyprus property market and the likely financial crisis hard on its heels. No doubt this verdict will have been passed on already to the producers of the forthcoming (two? three?) TV exposes on the Cyprus property market being screened in the UK.

Not many brits will get justice in a cypriot court , you keep forgeting , they dont like us ! yes they love our money but thats it .
Conor will have to go to the supreme court co get justice
they will only give it him because the EU will be watching , the judge in larnaca district court should be investigated and sacked .

The whole expat community is watching this , plus would be buyers from abroad .
They are digging ther own grave ...

Regards
paphos people

Having followed this case in the Press since the beginning. I am speechless at the verdict from the "judge" !
Conor, don't lose hope !! Good Luck for the future.

We are one of lucky ones to have had an honest builder and (partly), honest lawyer. We got our deeds 4 years after buying.

Without having the full picture of the case, and having read the article above (and some other articles),I would say that if O'Dwyer does not have either his house or the money he gave the developer, then it would be obviously crystal clear that the latter has done something wrong.You pay an amount to get a good or service in exchange. Has O'Dwyer received anything, apart from bruises and problems? Developers in Cy have acquired a very bad name unfortunately and it is their fault entirely. Then we all come out and cry that tourism is low, sales of property are fallen, so on and so forth. If trust and honesty are gone, then what is left?

It is interesting to note that the defending lawyer thinks he has won a victory. How so?

Would anyone really buy a house from his client ever again when they know it is likely to be re-sold from under them along with coming with a free assault or two?

Have to agree with JRB from Limassol, he provoked the Developer and his son when he allowed his car to be crashed into on the road, dragged himself out of it, put himself on the ground and thumped his head repeatedly off the Developers son's boot, landing himself in hospital for 6 days. Yes he provoked the Developer when he paid him almost £100,000 and when he lodged his contract in the Land Registry for "specific performance"...................the contract is still there, was never cancelled, yet no house, no money and now, no justice.

I digress, I was in court for the verdict yesterday and my only thought is, how can a country which continually bleats about the injustice of Turks taking their houses and land, condone such a ludicrous verdict as was witnessed yesterday. Now the wonderful ROC will have something else to bleat about There is nobody coming to Cyprus to buy our houses, why?

Your legal system is a joke and your country is not fit to be a member of the EU. As for the Presidency of the EU in 2012..............you are having a laugh.

Tell me I have woken up from this bad dream I am having.

Why does every case in Cyprus have to go to the Supreme Court to get just decisions following ridiculous verdicts in District Courts? The Judge in this case totally contradicted her own summation throughout.

It took 10 years for the first ever negligence case against a lawyer to get through the unfit for purpose system and get a correct decision in the Supreme Court. This leading to ill health and a marriage breakdown for the couple involved and now Conor and Michaela and the girls have to endure further misery. It is simply not good enough.

How on earth did Cyprus ever gain entry to the EU is a question I recently put to my MP.

How the hell was this country allowed into the EU ?

Sometimes I am disgusted with my country

How does one 'lay the key points of a case bare' when one stays absolutely silent in court and refuses to defend onself because you have no defence. The house was re-sold and the Developer still has Conor's money, if this isn't fraudulent I don't know what is. Would you not make a noise about it JRB if this was your situation?

Yup. But remember those court cases against that lawyer in Pafos for malpractise? In the end, the Supreme Court put things right.

Yup. But remember those court cases against that lawyer in Pafos for malpractise? In the end, the Supreme Court put things right.

Justice Cyprus style............there is no way that Connor was going to win this case as long as the law in Cyprus is so corrupt. The case will be continuously blocked again in appeal and the only ones to win will be the equally greedy solicitors
What would happen if he took the case to the ECHR as did the Cypriots who had their property taken from them in the north in 1974?
There certainly is one rule for the Cypriots and another for the minority who are caught in the property scams in Cyprus

I was there, I heard the verdict and still don't believe it, I'm sure this will be overturned by the Supreme Court at appeal.

Be warned,

It is legal in this country for a developer to take your money, cancel your contract, sell the house to someone else at a profit and keep your money.........because they told you they were going to do it, even though your contract is stamped, registered and deposited with the land registry office.

More shame for the republic, the judiciary and the housing industry, this is the country which will take over the revolving presidency of the EU in 2012...................unless they sell the job to someone else !!

Very ridiculous verdict since according to the Island’s ‘Specific Performance Law’, the deposit of a contact of sale at a Land Registry prevents a property from being sold for a second time. It can only be withdrawn from the Land Registry with the agreement of the vendor and the purchaser – or by a court order. O'Dwyer, however, is a loud mouth and is not as innocent as it would appear. He is guilty of provoking Karayannis. The simple solution would be for the court to make Karayannis pay back the money he took from O'Dwyer. As is the only people who gain from this fiasco are the lawyers.